<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Regarding the post sent earlier regarding armor for Afghanistan, I forward the following, with which I wholly concur.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Barcsi Janos<BR> </DIV>
<P align=left><STRONG>JEFFREY C. SMITH <BR><BR></P></STRONG>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Book Antiqua"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." -- John Wayne as John Bernard Books in <EM>The <STRONG>Shootist</STRONG></EM></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>
<DIV style="BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; MARGIN: 5px 0px 5px 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma>----- Forwarded Message ----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> LoriO <Foxesque@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> SCAMilitary@yahoogroups.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sun, February 28, 2010 10:09:21 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [SCAMilitary] Armor for Afghanistan - Think Twice Please<BR></FONT><BR><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none"> </SPAN> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<DIV id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<DIV id=ygrp-msg><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>Hi Y'all - <BR><BR>I haven't seen the original request for armor donations noted in the reply forwarded below, but it wouldn't surprise me. SCAers are generous and excited about what we do, so it makes sense that someone would rally their fellows to help our fighters overseas play the game they love. However, the gentleman makes some excellent points about practicality and patience. Please read below, and feel free to forward to other SCA forums of interest.<BR><BR>In Service and Song,<BR>Morgan<BR>------------ --------- --------- --<BR><BR>I noticed this posting and discussed it with the gentle from<BR>Ealdormere who is, so far as I know, one of the the only other two<BR>authorized Heavy fighters on Khandahar Air Field. Having said that, I<BR>speak only for myself on this topic.<BR><BR>Apparently it has gone viral throughout most of the Known World, and<BR>I'd appreciate my forwarded response to be sent where ever you have<BR>seen the request for
armor to be brought to Gulf Wars. I cc'ed the<BR>SCA in Afghanistan yahoogroup.<BR><BR>First off, let me say how much I personally appreciate the idea--and<BR>even more so, the fact that it would actually happen. I appreciate<BR>that this response might upset some folks who are trying to do what is<BR>a well-intentioned act of charity. But I have to call it like I see<BR>it--and in this case, I'm the one wearing the armor in more ways than<BR>one.<BR><BR>Let me present the obstacles to having loaner gear and holding actual<BR>rattan combat on KAF.<BR><BR>First, the climate. During most of the year, this place is incredibly<BR>dry. We do not have, for the most part, climate-controlled living<BR>conditions. Leather would dry and crack in fairly short order. I<BR>brought a leather half-gauntlet to wear doing pell work, and it has<BR>already split to the point that it would not be safe to wear. During<BR>the rainy season, metal armor would rust solid. We do
not have the<BR>shop, equipment, tools, etc. to maintain the armor. Most of us do not<BR>have the time, either.<BR><BR>Second, storage. If I say it is frankly kicking our butts to handle<BR>storage of the rapier loaner gear, it would make the scale of problem<BR>apparent. I personally live in a circus tent with about 150 other<BR>troops. We are on bunk beads, and while lying in my bed I can reach<BR>out and touch the bunks of the people to my left and right. Even<BR>those people who do have space to store a duffel bag of armor and<BR>swords have a hard time making it out regularly enough for the gear to<BR>do any good. It's our biggest issue right now--one of the loaner<BR>rapier bags is in the hands of someone who has not been out to play in<BR>two weeks. Next month, I will likely be out on mission for 5-7 days<BR>at a time--I certainly could not hold loaner gear.<BR><BR>Third, experienced fighters. We have three with experience in rattan<BR>fighting
-- and one of them is leaving in two weeks to go home.<BR>Frankly, I feel a lot safer having two utter newbies going at it with<BR>rapiers than with rattan clubs, especially if those people have<BR>military pugil stick or riot baton training and are essentially<BR>trained to fight to submission. Without an SCA group to properly<BR>train newbie how to call blows and what is and is not acceptable, the<BR>safety margin goes straight to pot. Especially if the one or two<BR>authorized marshals happens to not be there that night. Which leads<BR>us into the last two points.<BR><BR>Perception of safety. Unless and until we get a general or three out<BR>here who fights in the SCA, we are dealing with people who don't<BR>understand what we are doing. They tolerate rapier--unofficiall y and<BR>under the radar, so to speak. If we went to rattan, someone would<BR>take notice, and most likely ban it. That stuff LOOKS dangerous, and<BR>the chain of command is
risk-adverse as it is.<BR><BR>Finally, safety. All of us have to be at work tomorrow--and for some<BR>of us, "work" consists of going out and killing people for real, who<BR>are trying very, very hard to kill us. If I get a broken collar bone<BR>because some idiot Marine beat me with a club, I fail in my duty. I<BR>would have to send my Soldiers, for whom I am responsible, out the<BR>wire without me. It's not what an Ansteorran hero does--and more<BR>importantly, it is not what a professional Soldier does. What would<BR>be even worse would be for me to "simply" be bruised and battered<BR>enough that it will slow me down on mission. I trust I should not<BR>have to elaborate on the consequences. While it is possible to get<BR>hurt fighting rapier, it is far more likely to get hurt fighting heavy<BR>in minimal armor that doesn't fit properly against people who don't<BR>know what the hell they are doing.<BR><BR>Don't get me wrong--I want to be able to fight
heavy. I would love to<BR>have kit that fit me and was servicable enough to make me feel<BR>comfortable doing so. But frankly, I don't see it as practical given<BR>the circumstances at KAF.<BR><BR>Ld. Ioannes Dalassenos<BR>Squire to Sir Giotto di Giovanni<BR><BR>John M. Atkinson<BR>SSG, USA<BR><BR></P></DIV><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<DIV style="HEIGHT: 0px; COLOR: #fff">__._,_.___</DIV>
<DIV style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10px; COLOR: #666; CLEAR: both; PADDING-TOP: 15px" id=ygrp-actbar>
<DIV><A href="mailto:?subject=Armor for Afghanistan - Think Twice Please" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:?subject=Armor for Afghanistan - Think Twice Please">Reply to <SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: 700">sender</SPAN></A> | <A href="mailto:SCAMilitary@yahoogroups.com?subject=Armor for Afghanistan - Think Twice Please" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:SCAMilitary@yahoogroups.com?subject=Armor for Afghanistan - Think Twice Please">Reply to <SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: 700">group</SPAN></A> </DIV><A href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCAMilitary/message/337;_ylc=X3oDMTMzcnI3NXJrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExOTAyMjQwBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTEyNjI4MwRtc2dJZAMzMzcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjY3MzcwNTA5BHRwY0lkAzMzNw--" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Messages in this topic</A> (<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: 700">1</SPAN>) </DIV>
<DIV style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e0ecee; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10px; FONT-SIZE: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 10px" id=ygrp-vital><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: uppercase; COLOR: #333; FONT-WEIGHT: bold" id=vithd>Recent Activity:</SPAN>
<UL style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; DISPLAY: inline; PADDING-TOP: 0px"></UL>
<DIV style="COLOR: #1e66ae; CLEAR: both; PADDING-TOP: 2px"><A style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 2px; BORDER-RIGHT: #000 1px solid; TEXT-DECORATION: none" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCAMilitary;_ylc=X3oDMTJmN2lvbjJqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExOTAyMjQwBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTEyNjI4MwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyNjczNzA1MDg-" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Visit Your Group</A> <A style="FONT-WEIGHT: 700; TEXT-DECORATION: none" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCAMilitary/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmczM1czNrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExOTAyMjQwBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTEyNjI4MwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyNjczNzA1MDk-" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Start a New Topic</A> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 2px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; CLEAR: both; FONT-SIZE: 11px; PADDING-TOP: 0px" id=ft><A style="FLOAT: left" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlazBxZ2g3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExOTAyMjQwBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTEyNjI4MwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTI2NzM3MDUwOQ--" rel=nofollow target=_blank><IMG style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px" alt="Yahoo! Groups" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/yg/logo/us.gif" width=137 height=15></A>
<DIV style="FLOAT: right; COLOR: #747575">Switch to: <A style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" href="mailto:SCAMilitary-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:SCAMilitary-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Text-Only</A>, <A style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" class=margin-rt href="mailto:SCAMilitary-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:SCAMilitary-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Daily Digest</A> • <A style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" href="mailto:SCAMilitary-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:SCAMilitary-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe">Unsubscribe</A> • <A style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Terms of Use</A></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px 0px 25px; WIDTH: 160px; BACKGROUND: #fff; FLOAT: right; CLEAR: none" id=ygrp-sponsor>
<DIV id=ygrp-reco></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="COLOR: #fff; CLEAR: both; FONT-SIZE: 1px">.</DIV></DIV><IMG src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=11902240/grpspId=1705126283/msgId=337/stime=1267370509/nc1=3848614/nc2=4025338/nc3=5733764" width=1 height=1> <BR>
<DIV style="HEIGHT: 0px; COLOR: #fff">__,_._,___</DIV><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<STYLE type=text/css>
<!--
#ygrp-mkp {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}
#ygrp-mkp hr {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
#ygrp-mkp #hd {
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}
#ygrp-mkp #ads {
margin-bottom:10px;}
#ygrp-mkp .ad {
padding:0 0;}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a {
color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
font-family:Arial;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}
a {
color:#1e66ae;}
#actions {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}
#activity {
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}
#activity span {
font-weight:700;}
#activity span:first-child {
text-transform:uppercase;}
#activity span a {
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}
#activity span span {
color:#ff7900;}
#activity span .underline {
text-decoration:underline;}
.attach {
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}
.attach div a {
text-decoration:none;}
.attach img {
border:none;padding-right:5px;}
.attach label {
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}
.attach label a {
text-decoration:none;}
blockquote {
margin:0 0 0 4px;}
.bold {
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}
.bold a {
text-decoration:none;}
dd.last p a {
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}
dd.last p span {
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right:0;}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration:none;}
div.attach-table {
width:400px;}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}
.green {
color:#628c2a;}
.MsoNormal {
margin:0 0 0 0;}
o {
font-size:0;}
#photos div {
float:left;width:72px;}
#photos div div {
border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}
#photos div label {
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}
#reco-category {
font-size:77%;}
#reco-desc {
font-size:77%;}
.replbq {
margin:4px;}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom:10px;}
#ygrp-mlmsg a {
color:#1E66AE;}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family:Verdana;}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}
#ygrp-text {
font-family:Georgia;}
#ygrp-text p {
margin:0 0 1em 0;}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size:120%;}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right:none !important;
}
-->
</STYLE>
</DIV></DIV></div></body></html>